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Old January 20th, 2008, 12:59 PM
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Default Cruising Economics 101 ...Impact on Future Cruising Plans

if you believe the pundits..we are very near (if not already started) an economic downturn that could lead to a recession

a) how has this news impacted you, in your home's budget
b) will it impact any current cruises on the book or future (not deposited yet) cruising plans

I am counting on President Bush's $500 rebate (I am single) in the spring to be divided in thirds...$165 for rainy day stash..$165 to pay down bills..$170 to go in my cruise cookie jar fund to pay for onboard roulette, bingo and drinks of the day I want to do my share in contributing to getting the cruise economy jump started
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Old January 20th, 2008, 01:13 PM
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the Captain's and the Mrs strategy:

we cruise last, last minute.............always at $50 or less daily per person, inlcuding port charges..............that's how we've done it for the last 5 years or so.........last year we did 5 cruises like that, the year before we packed in another 5.........

this year so far: Zilch, Zero, Nothing, Nada

if last-minute cruises hit our price point, we cruise, if not, we can wait, eventually one will come along at the right price................never fails!


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Old January 20th, 2008, 05:22 PM
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My hubby and I made a deal. I can't cruise (after 3CCCs) again until I get to my goal weight and he can't buy a wave runner until he gets down to his goal weight. Trust me we will be well out of a recession by the time either of us reach our goal weight.
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Old January 20th, 2008, 06:50 PM
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We are preparing for the future, and at this point it looks like cruises will remain a part of that future. Who knows? For now we take it one day at a time. :-)

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Old January 20th, 2008, 09:30 PM
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A bad stock market means we can cruise more. As our retirement account keeps falling, we have to postpone retirement. Since our cruising dollars are based on current income and not retirement income, we can still pay as much for cruising and, if the economy causes cruises to fall in price, we end up with more cruises.
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Old January 20th, 2008, 09:42 PM
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Truthfully, what knocks me out is that all these brilliant economists think that tossing everybody $500 will have a significant long-term positive impact on the economy. I say this because the evidence is that in spite of the current situation and future predictions, people are going deeper into consumer debt than ever. Back in the "good old days" (maybe a year ago), the average family's credit card balances came to something north of $9,000. I cringe to think of what the average must be now.

And in radio soundbites from our brilliant fellow Americans over the last few days, in answer to the question of what will you do with your $500 windfall, we get answers such as "Buy something, I guess."

At some point somebody is going to have to start protecting people from their plastic. I suppose "buying something, I guess" might provide a short term stimulus, but in the long run it's gonna be like those gift cards you get at Christmas. When you take them to the store you always buy more than the face value of the gift card, and the rest goes on your credit card. The evidence is that if you give Americans $500, they'll spend $700, and that's the piper that this country is eventually going to have to pay--with heavy interest.

The best advice still is unless it's for the roof over your head or (in some cases) the car you drive, if you can't afford to pay cash, you can't afford it. If that means postponing cruises or any other luxuries, well, so be it.
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Old January 21st, 2008, 12:25 AM
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AR,

You're right, but consumer spending is the engine that powers our economy. Giving people 500 bucks to spend (and SPEND it they will), will jolt the economy for a bit.

But think of the alternative. What if people saved that 500 bucks. What then? Probable economic freefall........

Dean
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Old January 21st, 2008, 07:47 AM
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Mean Dean..I read somewhere that the proposal is up to $800 for singles so I can increase my cruise spending

I think folks should pay down their debts and save the rest but remember to allocate funds for what is really important in life..going on a cruise
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Old January 21st, 2008, 10:38 AM
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Dean--

I don't think economic freefall is in the cards, but anything is possible. Your point, of course, is predicated on the idea that some sort of cash windfall is a given, and that the only question is what people do with it.

So let's pursue that line of thinking. Assuming it could be done administratively (which it probably can't), what would you think of the idea of withholding the cash payment from anyone with financed consumer debt above $2,000 and instead applying their money directly to pay down that debt?

I ask because I really believe there's something a little different about this downturn, and it may require something other than the standard old solutions. The core of these problems has always been some sort of unwarranted excess, but this time that excess is over the issue of debt. That's what's different, and fixing it will ultimately requre addressing how this nation views and handles debt, both at the consumer and institutional levels.

Logically, then, if we are to drop money out of helicopters, wouldn't it be nice this time around to make sure it lands someplace where it will help solve the underlying problem--even at the risk of weakening the short-term effect?
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Old January 21st, 2008, 11:14 AM
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I am 49 and started working at age 16. One GOLDEN rule I always followed was to PAY MYSELF FIRST, no matter what. Each and every week I put money away for a rainy day and for my retirement. Over the years I started from scratch and successfully developed 2 businesses and working 36-hour days was very common for me in my younger years. I sold my last business in 2006 and am now retired!

Never in my working career did I rely on Uncle Sam for any handout, never did I live beyond my means. Even for my retirement, I do not expect to rely on Uncle Sam for anything. I have actually been accused of being everything from a miser, thrifty, frugal, cheapskate and a bunch of other adjectives.

Who do you think has had the last laugh? At 49, our house is paid off, we have a 2nd home in the Meditteranean and we spend like 60% of our time traveling.

Sure the USA is the biggest economy in the world and if you asked me it is all based on PEOPLE LIVING WAY BEYOND THEIR MEANS. That's what keeps the motor of the world (as I like to refer to the good old USA) running. If people just take charge of their finances and live WITHIN their means, most Americans would NOT be in the bind they are in. I have no tolerance or sympathy for whiners and losers who live every day of their lives way beyond what they can afford and then who expect Uncle Sam to bail them out every time there is a financial crunch/crises. I cannot recall how many times I have driven by shitty houses that are rental properties and seen $80,000 automobiles parked there and I wonder to myself, if anyone can afford to drive that kind of car, can't they afford to live in a better house? See my logic? The most expensive automobile I have ever purchased was a $19,000 1999 Chevy that I still drive and I sure as hell can afford to be driving around in a $100K Corvette but fiscal restraint tells me I shouldn't.

Anyways, I better get off this soapbox, I apologize if I offended anyone or if I sounded like bragging. I guess by now you all know I like to speak my mind out and I don't like to mince my words.
Just my take on this subject.

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Old January 21st, 2008, 02:40 PM
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I have a special bank account where i put a little bit away each pay check.
and a US account for my spenting money on board. unfortunely the odd time «i have to touch it for emerigences. when i have enough, I book a cruise.
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Old January 21st, 2008, 02:46 PM
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I don't recall any mention of the rebate being touted as a long term solution.
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Old January 21st, 2008, 03:11 PM
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it's not...but since it's an election year both parties have put their spin on it..sometimes you should just let the market correct itself..I always recall during the Johnson administration when he stated you can have both "guns and butter"...guess he was wrong

AR is right on target on this one...it should be very very hard to get a credit card and our country should pay down the national debt
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Old January 21st, 2008, 03:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rinker250
I don't recall any mention of the rebate being touted as a long term solution.
Well, they always imply that their ideas will produce everlasting results, but you're right that nobody has said anything that would stand up to serious examination as a long-term solution. That's the problem. We're a country that does Band-Aid fixes and passes them off as serious public policy. But when it comes to serious wrestling with real, persistent problems, ideas and political courage are in very short supply.

It's our own fault. We're not interested in anything that doesn't produce instant gratification. Short-term sacrifice in return for long-term gain isn't in our national vocabulary. We reap what we sow.
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Old January 21st, 2008, 03:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by venice
AR is right on target on this one...it should be very very hard to get a credit card and our country should pay down the national debt
My father was an accountant. When I was a kid in the 50's I remember him saying, "Getting a loan is easy. All you have to do is prove that you don't need one." Nice gag, but the fact is that credit cards, payday loans, tax-refund loans. . .none of that stuff was seriously on the radar screen yet. And getting a loan was serious business.

Lately all you've had to do to get one is fog a mirror.

The Captain's note should be an inspiration to all: pay yourself first, stay out of debt, don't expect the government to help you or bail your ass out of your self-created problems, and stay humble. Laugh a lot, retire early, don't look back. There is true nobililty in that perspective.
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Old January 21st, 2008, 03:50 PM
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and marry young and stay married to the same woman and have good health
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Old January 21st, 2008, 04:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by venice
and marry young and stay married to the same woman and have good health
Well, I got those two right.
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Old January 21st, 2008, 06:42 PM
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I got two out of three.
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Old January 21st, 2008, 07:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave the Wave
I got two out of three.
I thought marry young and stay married was one thing.

So I got 3!!!
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Old January 21st, 2008, 11:14 PM
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statistics indicate that we may marry young, but we don't stay married to the same woman

in the words of the great football coach Eddie Robinson of Grambling....one wife, one job (he held both for over 50 years before he died)
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Old January 22nd, 2008, 08:41 AM
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Default Re: Cruising Economics 101 ...Impact on Future Cruising Plan

This idea of giving a rebate to the middle-class is a terrible Liberal idea. The only thing that will help our economy is tax cuts for the rich. In fact, the poorer classes should be taxed more and the money transferred to the rich. Also, the deficit is not large enough. We must cut revenue and increase spending. These problems all started from President Clinton running a surplus in 2000.

Cheers, Aidan
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Old January 22nd, 2008, 08:45 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AR
Quote:
Originally Posted by venice
AR is right on target on this one...it should be very very hard to get a credit card and our country should pay down the national debt
My father was an accountant. When I was a kid in the 50's I remember him saying, "Getting a loan is easy. All you have to do is prove that you don't need one." Nice gag, but the fact is that credit cards, payday loans, tax-refund loans. . .none of that stuff was seriously on the radar screen yet. And getting a loan was serious business.

Lately all you've had to do to get one is fog a mirror.

The Captain's note should be an inspiration to all: pay yourself first, stay out of debt, don't expect the government to help you or bail your ass out of your self-created problems, and stay humble. Laugh a lot, retire early, don't look back. There is true nobililty in that perspective.
All good points. I think part of the problem is that kids are just learning by their parents examples of the "got to have it now" mentality. There seems to be an idea out there that debt is just the American way and people go out, overextend themselves over items that years ago people wouldn't have dreamed of buying until probably retirement age...They justify it with the old "you can't take money with you when you die" mentality. While I think the responsiblity is the parent's to teach kids to be smart about money, it would be good if the schools started teaching some of the financial health basics and pointing out the serious disadvantages to going in to debt....People today think it's a good idea to go out and buy a new car to "rebuild" their credit...Oh my God! Let's face it, most of our parents would have considered cruising some kind of super luxury vacation that could only possibly be taken after retirement, if even then...Today, people in their early 20s are taking them twice a year or more...And I would bet that most of them are paying for them on high interest credit cards...Dont get me wrong, I know not ALL of them are doing this.

As far as this possibly upcoming rebate from the goverment, I don't see how it could hurt. I think what people fail to remember about these rebates is that it IS OUR MONEY and it is their DUTY to return it back to us whenever they can...It shouldn't be considered some kind of gift because, again, IT'S OURS!!!
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Old January 22nd, 2008, 09:20 AM
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Fed rate cut of 3/4 point ain't gonna hurt.
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Old January 22nd, 2008, 10:32 AM
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AR I always value your opinion concerning money matters because I think you are pretty smart <when it comes to that>

The money rebate is a joke and it will not help but hurt the economy.

The interest rate cuts will not help anyone except the people who created this mess.

Credit cards should be against teh law since it's a legalized loan shark program. We don't have any and will never get one.

This country has been run into the ground financially and it will take a long time before it will recover from the reckless spending.

We are in a recession in my opinion.

Okay that's it
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Old January 22nd, 2008, 11:32 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sue
AR I always value your opinion concerning money matters because I think you are pretty smart <when it comes to that>

The money rebate is a joke and it will not help but hurt the economy.

The interest rate cuts will not help anyone except the people who created this mess.

Credit cards should be against teh law since it's a legalized loan shark program. We don't have any and will never get one.

This country has been run into the ground financially and it will take a long time before it will recover from the reckless spending.

We are in a recession in my opinion.

Okay that's it
Sue..Just wondering how putting some of the money back into the hands of the people who it belongs to anyway is going to HURT the economy...I know it's up for grabs how much it will actually help, especially in the long term...But hurt the economy?? Not a flame in any way just wondering how you arrive at that kind of conclusion?
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Old January 22nd, 2008, 11:36 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Aidan
This idea of giving a rebate to the middle-class is a terrible Liberal idea. The only thing that will help our economy is tax cuts for the rich. In fact, the poorer classes should be taxed more and the money transferred to the rich. Also, the deficit is not large enough. We must cut revenue and increase spending. These problems all started from President Clinton running a surplus in 2000.

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Old January 22nd, 2008, 11:39 AM
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Aidan is just trying to stir it.
Too bad his sarcasm has no continuity.

Another 1/2 point drop in a week.
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Old January 22nd, 2008, 11:46 AM
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ready2board no offense taken The money is peanuts in my opinion and one must wonder where is the money coming from? Once again it is borrowed! It would be wiser to invest money for jobs and into investments that would bring a bigger return.

Plus B. Sen did the same thing if I remember right and it did not help.
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Old January 22nd, 2008, 12:02 PM
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Sue, there is a BIPARTISAN (important right now, I think) push to provide business investment incentives in addition to the consumer cash.
Right along the lines of what you suggest.

What is B. Sen?
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Old January 22nd, 2008, 12:11 PM
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President B. father <sorry>
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