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  #31 (permalink)  
Old November 18th, 2010, 05:33 PM
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Old November 18th, 2010, 05:40 PM
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Just tossing this out there:

What will we do the first time a plane comes down because the terrorist has ingested the explosive or placed it internally where the sun doesn't shine?

What and where will we then examine? There does have to be a stopping point. I think we may need to profile just as El Al does.
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Old November 18th, 2010, 08:30 PM
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Originally Posted by Snoozeman View Post
Just tossing this out there:

What will we do the first time a plane comes down because the terrorist has ingested the explosive or placed it internally where the sun doesn't shine?

What and where will we then examine? There does have to be a stopping point. I think we may need to profile just as El Al does.
We definetely need to profile!

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Old November 18th, 2010, 08:36 PM
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Okay I travelled in April Tampa to Fort Lauderdale via Southwest. Even though SW had the body scans, TSA didn't allow people with implants (in my case 2 titatinium hips) to use them, so did the body scan. FLL didn't have the body scans so got pat down. No problem.

Then, this November - in Tampa got the body scan ... terrific and quick. Back from FLL (they had body scans but not at my terminal) ... and boy was I scanned (in my opinion evasively as to putting fingers in my anus) - that's too far. Hope next time I'm there, they'll have the body scan.

But then there might be these people (in my case women) who get a kick out of over doing it.
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Old November 18th, 2010, 08:57 PM
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We are flying less, since I retired.
This monday we will be driving to Myrtle Beach SC., and we will also drive to our cruise in january.

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Old November 18th, 2010, 09:06 PM
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I would like to offer some reading material for folks to perhaps answer their concerns....
Products for Security Screening of People

http://www.tsa.gov/assets/pdf/jh_apl_v1.pdf


The TSA Blog

There remains some concern that "leakage" at the top of the scanner surpasses the legal limits. Transparency with regard to current surveys of the equipment posted for public review would be nice.

Some of the info can get technical.

Backscatter technology was evaluated by the Food and Drug Administrationís (FDA) Center for Devices and Radiological Health (CDRH), the National Institute for Standards and Technology (NIST), and the Johns Hopkins University Applied Physics Laboratory (APL).

All results confirmed that the radiation doses for the individuals being screened, operators, and bystanders were well below the dose limits specified by the American National Standards Institute (ANSI).
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Old November 18th, 2010, 09:39 PM
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Cruznut...so since I now have titanium implants in my ankles... does that mean I can opt out of a full body scan?
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  #38 (permalink)  
Old November 18th, 2010, 09:39 PM
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With all the talk , both for and against the pat downs and scans, I bet if the airlines and TSA came up with a plan that just said--we give up--fly at your own risk-- I bet the lines would be gone and the planes pretty well empty.
Then when several planes were blown out of the air, the whiners would be begging for " safety " in flying.
We always seem to go to the extremes to try to please everyone, every religion, be Mr. nice guy to everyone, etc.and it can't be done.We have to implement the best safety system we can and stick with it, regardless of what a few say. If that few doesn't want to fly, let 'em walk.
A plane load of human beings lives are more important than worrying about hurting someone's supposed pride at being " touched " or scanned with a low dose of radiation. No, I wouldn't necessarily want to have a cat scan everyday for months on end but again a scan for your clothing is different that scanning for a tumor, etc. and how many people, on average, fly enough to worry about the radiation anyway.
I find it kind of ironic or even amusing at the junk food we, as Americans in general consume in a year that makes us overweight, gives us high blood pressure and diabetes, feed same to the kids so they become obese--we drive while texting, talk on a cell phone while driving, drink and drive thereby endangering our own health as well as our kids and others on the roads but yet feel it's unsafe and unhealthy to undergo a scan at an airport once or twice a year that may save a plane load of peoples lives.
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  #39 (permalink)  
Old November 18th, 2010, 09:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Manuel View Post
We are flying less, since I retired.
This monday we will be driving to Myrtle Beach SC., and we will also drive to our cruise in january.

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  #40 (permalink)  
Old November 18th, 2010, 10:45 PM
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I went through the TSA check line twice at LAX a few days ago.
I had to get inside the terminal to buy ciggis and had to go back out to smoke them.
3 hours after my first pass through I did my second and neither time was I scanned or patted down and just went through the metal detector and my bags, shoes, belt and pocket contents through the scanner. Wheeeew!
Funny thing is on my first pass I forgot that I had coins from my home country in the coin pocket of my trousers and the metal detector didn't pick them up???

Thank goodness I only have one US domestic flight to get through for the rest of my life.

I don't think I will be coming back because of the stress this whole situation causes me. Uuuugh!

I'm sure that this will reduce the number of tourist's coming to this country?
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  #41 (permalink)  
Old November 18th, 2010, 11:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by beenie weenie View Post
Cruznut...so since I now have titanium implants in my ankles... does that mean I can opt out of a full body scan?
You will be unable to go through the metal detectors.

You can do the body scan. Your ankle implants will show up. Or you can opt for the pat down.

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  #42 (permalink)  
Old November 19th, 2010, 06:41 AM
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To each his / her own but I can't get this " it's all about freedom and liberty stuff and they're not touching me or my child "--- the terrorists don't give a damn about anyone's freedom or liberty or about your precious children--their objective is to kill people by any means possible and to garner all the publicity they can for doing so. Therefore, bringing down a plane full of people is instantly flashed all over the world--scoring a home run for the terrorists--they couldn't care less about how many kids were on the plane.
They only have to be right once in thousands of tries. We have to be 100 % right ALL the time or we lose.
If people don't want to be scanned, take the greyhound. If they don't want to be touched, take the greyhound. When I fly, which I do every few months, I want to be damn sure some nut isn't on the plane with me with an underwear or bra full of plastic explosives to blow us all up.The average person flies so little in this country that the amount of radiation they absorb in a body scan is not enough to make you glow in the dark, give you horrible growths, etc. People so concerned about their health in a body scan will undoubtedly stop at a fast food joint and scarf down a Big Mac, large fries and large coke while in the airport between flights-- that's really being health conscious!!
Face it--the world has changed. If you want to be safe, then you need to change with it.If you can't abide by the safety rules implemented for the benefit of the majority of people, then don't create a stink--just stay the heck home or ride the bus. Don't create problems for the vast majority that want to protect themselves and their families by abiding by the new laws and rules.
I have nothing to hide and don't care if they pat me down, pat me up , over or under. I know I'm ok--But I don't know about the guy behind me-- therefore , he needs to be patted and scanned too.
Do you think someone's going to show up an airport with a large sign saying " I'm a terrorist and will blow your plane up if you let me on?"
Hardly--so, what do you do--you treat everyone the same and save all the lives you can by using the new rules.
Get with it or get on the bus, Gus!
I have a right to travel by any means I please. If you ask me, by deploying these draconian measures of searching people, then the terrorists have already won. What is wrong with what we were doing before this pat down and body scanner stuff started? Last I knew, there hasn't been an airplane blown up over American skies since 9/11. I really only see this as a grab for our freedoms.
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  #43 (permalink)  
Old November 19th, 2010, 12:25 PM
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Truck cruiser,I agree you may travel by any means you please. that includes driving but you don't have the right to drive drunk. ( Not saying you do--just using an example of so-called " rights " --and using your own example of traveling by any means-- and pointing out that even driving has it's restrictions ) Therefore if rules and practices are put into place to protect the majority of people who choose to fly, then the rules should apply to all, not waived for a few or one or two who object to the rules. If you don't want to comply with the pat down and scan, then as you say, you are certainly free to choose an alternative method of getting from point a to point b. But don't expect the entire country to change just for you or a few like you.
The safety of many overrides the objections of a few. If you don't, won't or can't abide by the rules and system, by all means choose whatever method of travel you have at your command--that's the point I have made all along and thanks for helping me make that point.
You make a couple of good points too--there hasn't been any airplanes blown up since 9-11 that we actually know of ---wonder why--- would it be because in most parts of the world new measures since 9-11 were taken to keep it from happening, and in a couple of instances, just pure luck? I would certainly think the stepped up security has had a lot to do with it. How many near-misses we've had we will probably never know. But just one that does slip through is all it takes to needlessly get a bunch of people killed . I would hate to have that happen , especially if my kids, grand kids or even my own rear end were on that one plane.
Go to any courthouse and what happens--you have to walk through a scanner that beeps if you have any metallic object on your person. An armed guard or guards are there to make sure you don't get inside a courtroom with a gun , knife, etc to do harm to someone. I never heard any hue and cry from people over this. I had a pack of Rolaids in my pocket a few days ago, was in my small hometown and went to the court house and the scanner beeped--it was the foil in the Rolaids that set it off. I didn't feel violated or that my freedom was threatened by someone with a gun wanting to know what set off the beeper.
Regarding seeing this as a grab at your freedoms, I don't see how trying to keep you and the general public safe is tampering with your freedom.
We can go back to flying as usual prior to 9-11 and see how long it will be before several aircraft are brought down by idiots with bombs, etc. We can bury our heads in the sand but when we do, we have a nasty habit of leaving another part of our anatomy exposed, begging to be kicked. When it happens, it's too late to say we " should have done this, that, etc ."
Terrorism is not going to go away if we pat, scan, take blood samples, or what ever. The airport security is just one link in a long chain of things we have to adapt to in the world we live in today. Terrorists will continue to find new ways to kill people, from blowing up planes with bombs to missiles fired from the ground, etc. They are constantly working on new ways to kill, therefore we too have to continuously work on new ways to thwart them and their plans.
I don't know that we will ever totally defeat people who are bound and determined to kill anyone who may cross their path-- kids, old, young, civilians, military or whomever it may be--they just want to kill and that's it. They gloat like they've done something heroic when they kill people.
Sooner or later someone is going to bomb a shopping mall-- I'm totally surprised it hasn't happened yet but when, where and how they will strike is an unknown, but that they will is for certain.
I wish I had the answers but unfortunately I do not and neither does anyone else.--but if the new procedures at the airport calls for me to be patted down and scanned and if it saves just one life, then it's all worth it.
However you travel, here's hoping you start off and end up safe and sound!
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  #44 (permalink)  
Old November 19th, 2010, 01:29 PM
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Old November 19th, 2010, 03:06 PM
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Anyone has a right to travel by any means they please, just as the carrier has a right to maintain security on the transport chosen & the right to refuse carriage to anyone they choose who they consider to be a risk.
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  #46 (permalink)  
Old November 19th, 2010, 03:17 PM
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And we are certain the the levels of radiation from these new machines are safe for the fetus in a pregnant woman?
I'm surprised at how mistrustful people are with the "government running healthcare" but who are suddenly proponents of the TSA, a government agency, and who are convinced that their employees (many of whom seem to be less than well-educated) are fully capable of operating radiation-generating machines on our bodies.
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Old November 19th, 2010, 03:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ron View Post
To each his / her own but I can't get this " it's all about freedom and liberty stuff and they're not touching me or my child "--- the terrorists don't give a damn about anyone's freedom or liberty or about your precious children--their objective is to kill people by any means possible and to garner all the publicity they can for doing so. Therefore, bringing down a plane full of people is instantly flashed all over the world--scoring a home run for the terrorists--they couldn't care less about how many kids were on the plane.
They only have to be right once in thousands of tries. We have to be 100 % right ALL the time or we lose.
If people don't want to be scanned, take the greyhound. If they don't want to be touched, take the greyhound. When I fly, which I do every few months, I want to be damn sure some nut isn't on the plane with me with an underwear or bra full of plastic explosives to blow us all up.The average person flies so little in this country that the amount of radiation they absorb in a body scan is not enough to make you glow in the dark, give you horrible growths, etc. People so concerned about their health in a body scan will undoubtedly stop at a fast food joint and scarf down a Big Mac, large fries and large coke while in the airport between flights-- that's really being health conscious!!
Face it--the world has changed. If you want to be safe, then you need to change with it.If you can't abide by the safety rules implemented for the benefit of the majority of people, then don't create a stink--just stay the heck home or ride the bus. Don't create problems for the vast majority that want to protect themselves and their families by abiding by the new laws and rules.
I have nothing to hide and don't care if they pat me down, pat me up , over or under. I know I'm ok--But I don't know about the guy behind me-- therefore , he needs to be patted and scanned too.
Do you think someone's going to show up an airport with a large sign saying " I'm a terrorist and will blow your plane up if you let me on?"
Hardly--so, what do you do--you treat everyone the same and save all the lives you can by using the new rules.
Get with it or get on the bus, Gus!
Ride the bus is not always safe either - we know that to our cost 7th July bombings in London - 2005.

I think that these necessary security checks will be extended to other forms of transport in future - dare I say it even cruise lines.

I have flown to the Middle East on several occasions and trust me these new regulations are a breeze compared to the security checks they have.
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Old November 19th, 2010, 04:37 PM
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Originally Posted by MarkNYC View Post
And we are certain the the levels of radiation from these new machines are safe for the fetus in a pregnant woman?
I'm surprised at how mistrustful people are with the "government running healthcare" but who are suddenly proponents of the TSA, a government agency, and who are convinced that their employees (many of whom seem to be less than well-educated) are fully capable of operating radiation-generating machines on our bodies.
So don't travel...
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Old November 19th, 2010, 05:24 PM
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Lots o' lemmings here.
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  #50 (permalink)  
Old November 19th, 2010, 05:30 PM
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Keep cool people! This too shall pass.

Things will improve with time.

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Old November 19th, 2010, 05:31 PM
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Rather than pat downs or killer x ray machines, I suggest water-boarding everyone wanting to fly. Apparently it's much safer, and very reliable.
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Old November 19th, 2010, 06:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by johnthed0g View Post
So don't travel...
That's your advice to women that may be pregnant?
I hope you don't work in security. Perhaps you work for the government?
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Old November 19th, 2010, 06:12 PM
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Lots o' lemmings here.
So true. Sadly many people decide to stop using their brains when the issue is security. It's very knee-jerk and people jump on the rah-rah bandwagon.
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Old November 19th, 2010, 06:28 PM
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Lots o' lemmings here.
Yup.. if people don't agree with your viewpoint the best and most effective arguement is to just label them.
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Old November 19th, 2010, 06:44 PM
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Originally Posted by beenie weenie View Post
Cruznut...so since I now have titanium implants in my ankles... does that mean I can opt out of a full body scan?


I MUCH prefer the full body scan ... don't know about your titanium ankles (hope they work as well as my titanium hips) but I prefer lickedty-split to intrusive (in my case in FLL) so-called pat downs. I thought she went much TOO far.

I want security first.
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Old November 19th, 2010, 06:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MarkNYC View Post
That's your advice to women that may be pregnant?
I hope you don't work in security. Perhaps you work for the government?
Yep...security comes first, your choice to be pregnant not anyones choice to blown up, don't blame security... blame the reason for it.
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Old November 19th, 2010, 08:25 PM
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We could all fly sans clothing
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Old November 19th, 2010, 09:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Henry43 View Post
We could all fly sans clothing
I think that's what it's coming to !
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Old November 19th, 2010, 11:21 PM
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Originally Posted by johnthed0g View Post
Yep...security comes first, your choice to be pregnant not anyones choice to blown up, don't blame security... blame the reason for it.
Ah yes, the politics of fear is alive and well.
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Old November 20th, 2010, 12:17 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Henry43 View Post
We could all fly sans clothing

I think that's a fine idea! That way you are not hiding anything.

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