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Old July 31st, 2014, 12:33 PM
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Default Have I been screwed by HA and what to do next.

Here is what happened to us. I am trying to decide what to do next. I will try to be brief.

1) Booked cruise to Alaska on HA through Travelocity (TA).

2) Bought 3rd party insurance which covers preexisting conditions in case my mother (aged and on hospice died and I would need to cancel).

3) 5 days prior to cruise, my daughter had major mental health issues. Decided it was best to cancel even if it meant losing our money. Checked our insurance and discovered that for mental health you had to die or be hospitalized.

4) DAY 1: Called HA who said they could only talk to TA. TA called HA. HA said they could do nothing. TA said keep calling since HA might need the room.

5) TA again called HA. HA said that we could change one person on the reservation for $400. Told TA that that would not work since we both wanted to go. Started asking friends if anyone wanted to take our cruise.

6) DAY 2: Called TA the next day to try again. HA said no. TA said, send HA an email with your problem and maybe they would help. Wrote HA explaining everything.

7) DAY 3: Got a call from TA. Said HA called them, told them to have us cancel the cruise and we would be taken care of! We cancelled the cruise.

8) DAY 5: Got letter from HA saying they were sorry for our daughter's death and that they would refund our money or re-book us. Sent them a thank you but informed them our daughter had not died.

9) DEAD Silence. A week later got an email saying that they were recalling the email with the letter! Since then I have sent letters and talked to TA and HA.

HA has responded that the conditions (of my daughter) changed since I wrote them. I think they are saying I said she died and she did not.

The important thing is my daughter is OK and I do not regret cancelling. The problem is that HA told me to cancel, and so I gave up the ability to transfer the cruise or even to go.

I think that HA read my email wrong and acted according to their policy which is they will refund for a death.

So bottom line, since HA made a mistake should I keep pursuing this?
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Old July 31st, 2014, 12:47 PM
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Originally Posted by KEVLYNNE View Post
Here is what happened to us. I am trying to decide what to do next. I will try to be brief.

1) Booked cruise to Alaska on HA through Travelocity (TA).

2) Bought 3rd party insurance which covers preexisting conditions in case my mother (aged and on hospice died and I would need to cancel).

3) 5 days prior to cruise, my daughter had major mental health issues. Decided it was best to cancel even if it meant losing our money. Checked our insurance and discovered that for mental health you had to die or be hospitalized.

4) DAY 1: Called HA who said they could only talk to TA. TA called HA. HA said they could do nothing. TA said keep calling since HA might need the room.

5) TA again called HA. HA said that we could change one person on the reservation for $400. Told TA that that would not work since we both wanted to go. Started asking friends if anyone wanted to take our cruise.

6) DAY 2: Called TA the next day to try again. HA said no. TA said, send HA an email with your problem and maybe they would help. Wrote HA explaining everything.

7) DAY 3: Got a call from TA. Said HA called them, told them to have us cancel the cruise and we would be taken care of! We cancelled the cruise.

8) DAY 5: Got letter from HA saying they were sorry for our daughter's death and that they would refund our money or re-book us. Sent them a thank you but informed them our daughter had not died.

9) DEAD Silence. A week later got an email saying that they were recalling the email with the letter! Since then I have sent letters and talked to TA and HA.

HA has responded that the conditions (of my daughter) changed since I wrote them. I think they are saying I said she died and she did not.

The important thing is my daughter is OK and I do not regret cancelling. The problem is that HA told me to cancel, and so I gave up the ability to transfer the cruise or even to go.

I think that HA read my email wrong and acted according to their policy which is they will refund for a death.

So bottom line, since HA made a mistake should I keep pursuing this?
My personal opinion, no you should not pursue this. You state up front, your daughter had enough of an issue that you decided to cancel even if it meant losing your money. You then check your policy and verify that you will not get and refund from the insurance unless your daughter was hospitalized or died (assuming neither happened). At that point, your only two options are A) stay booked and be a no-show or B) cancel so HAL can sell the cabin to someone else. Whether HAL misunderstood an email asking for leniency is immaterial since said email should not have been sent in the first place.

I'm probably sure this in snot what you wanted to hear but since you asked for an opinion, there is mine. Be happy your daughter is okay and check the insurance policy next time before you buy it to see if it will meet your needs.
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Old July 31st, 2014, 01:17 PM
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First, let me say how sorry I am that you had to cancel due to your daughter's health. I hope she's doing well and everything is okay.

I normally don't suggest booking with these big online sites like Travelocity because almost all of their agents are not certified travel agents and usually have not even been on a cruise. It does, however, sound like your agent was at least providing some service to you.

It's not unusual for a cruise line to not provide any compensation or assistance for cancelling or changing a cruise if done that close to sailing. That's what travel insurance is for. Sometimes the do try to accommodate such requests if the situation warrants, which speaks highly about the cruise line.

Normally, in situations like this, it's best to let the agent do all the work. After all, that's their job. And when you do have an agent, the cruise line is suppose to work directly with them and not the passenger. The agent, if they're worth anything, has contact information not available to you, so often they can get things you can't or get things done quicker. But it does take alot of time and effort, and most agents simply don't want to bother as it takes them away from selling, which is where they make their money.

As for calling the cruise line, most of the time you're talking to someone who has no clue as they work in a call center and are just there to sell you something. So it's not unusual for things to get misconstrued, as in your case. This is why it's so important for the agent to talk to the right departments.

Now, with all that said, the independent insurance you purchased (I'm assuming through Travelocity) is with Travel Guard. By reading your post it wasn't clear to me when you said you checked your insurance whether you actually contacted them or simply looked at the policy. I would contact them and ask to speak to an adjuster so you can give them specific information and get specific answers about whether you're covered or not. Perhaps documentation from a health care professional explaining the episode and their recommendation that it would be unsafe for her to go on a cruise might help. They may require you to submit the claim for review, so be as detailed as possible. If you get a rejection letter, you should get specific references in the policy as to why. If you have more information or don't agree with the rejection, you can appeal it, but you'll need to address specific parts of the policy to back up your claim. Again, this is where a good agent can be invaluable.

I will say that we use to sell travel insurance from 5 companies and had to fire 3 of them (all major brand names) because their customer service was not up to our standards. As I always tell people, brand name does not mean best policy, and best price does not mean best deal. It's the service they provide when you need to file a claim that defines their worth.

With that said, don't be surprised if they deny your claim the first time or request additional information. This is not unusual. And this is also not a quick process as it can take a couple of months to work through the process.

While doing all this, your agent should be dealing with HAL and working the request up the ladder to see what they can do for you. Again, they have contact information available to them that you don't have and sometimes those resources can be alot of help. Obviously, this will depend on the agent's willingness to help, their knowledge of the system, and their abilities.

Let us know how it goes and we hope you'll be able to take your daughter on another cruise in the future.

Pete
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Old July 31st, 2014, 01:25 PM
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And to respond to friedshrimp's post, no, you should never just be a no-show. If you need to cancel, then it's always best to cancel. And if you're cancelling for a specific reason, then document it.

If you cancel, there is always a remote possibility the cabin could be sold. This could be helpful should you want to pursue the matter with the cruise line. Also, if the ship is oversold, this helps the cruise line - again, something that could be helpful to you.

I would never recommend just not showing up. This can cause more problems than it's worth.

When you don't make the cruise, whether by cancelling or being a no-show, you will get a refund for the taxes. But when cancelling (the more notice you can give, the better), there is always a remote possibility you could get more of a refund.

Pete
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Old July 31st, 2014, 04:48 PM
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I agree with Pete's suggestion and give the insurance company a call and explain how and why you had to cancel, may-be further information may be needed, but sure worth a try...


Best of luck and, please, keep us posted...Hope to hear you can re-book this cruise.
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Old July 31st, 2014, 07:13 PM
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It's a shame that your honesty stopped the refund from HAL. It you'd kept quiet when they thought your daughter had died you would have received the refund. So, I admire your being upfront with HAL and perhaps you could use that angle, by telling them "you know, you were going to issue a refund until I corrected your bad assumption of what had happened. Is my honesty with you not worthy of some consideration?"
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Old August 1st, 2014, 10:16 AM
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Regarding insurance - not through TA - their insurance did not cover preexisting conditions.
There are very few policies that do, and I have one of them. TA's coverage and mine, do not cover mental health unless hospitalized or death.

My issue on this is that when HA said cancel and I did, I lost the very real opportunity to give the cruise to a friend for a small fee. I would still have lost everything, but could have given a really great gift to a friend.

I have not been able to reach anyone of note at HA (even with names of people to call).

Finally, since it is a huge part of what I do for a living, I am incredibly friendly encouraging and diplomatic on the phone when I talk to everyone involved - I am not the usual crabby yelling type. This is not to toot my own horn, but to let you know that I am doing this very tactfully.

Kevin
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Old August 1st, 2014, 12:29 PM
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Originally Posted by KEVLYNNE View Post
Regarding insurance - not through TA - their insurance did not cover preexisting conditions.
There are very few policies that do, and I have one of them. TA's coverage and mine, do not cover mental health unless hospitalized or death.

Kevin
Kevin,

Actually, there are many Travel Insurance policies that do cover pre-existing conditions if purchased within 7, 14, 21 days after initial deposit. There are a few that also cover Pre-existing if purchased at, or before, final payment.

If you purchased the policy within a week of booking I would check it to see if there is a pre-existing condition waiver.

Take care,
Mike
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Old August 1st, 2014, 12:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KEVLYNNE View Post
Regarding insurance - not through TA - their insurance did not cover preexisting conditions.
There are very few policies that do, and I have one of them. TA's coverage and mine, do not cover mental health unless hospitalized or death.

My issue on this is that when HA said cancel and I did, I lost the very real opportunity to give the cruise to a friend for a small fee. I would still have lost everything, but could have given a really great gift to a friend.

I have not been able to reach anyone of note at HA (even with names of people to call).

Finally, since it is a huge part of what I do for a living, I am incredibly friendly encouraging and diplomatic on the phone when I talk to everyone involved - I am not the usual crabby yelling type. This is not to toot my own horn, but to let you know that I am doing this very tactfully.

Kevin
You might want to consider going through a social media or public relations rep at HAL. Do they have a Facebook page that might show some links?

I know it is two different cruise lines, but anyone can contact the CEO of Norwegian Cruise Line just by e mailing his name @ NCL dot com. I have read several accounts of people who have pled their cases to him and received action. While I don't see any need for the majority of complaints to go through a CEO, sometimes it is warranted. If it were me, I'd be writing a letter to the CEO at HAL, outlining the circumstances and that fact that you cancelled on the advice of HAL and what happened afterward with all the documentation that you have.

Good Luck.
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Old August 1st, 2014, 04:48 PM
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The thing is, it's really not for the passenger to be contacting the cruise line - this is what the agent is suppose to be doing - it's their job. Tell them to do their job! If they don't want to do what they're suppose to do, then ask to speak to their supervisor. And don't settle for 'sorry, we can't help'.

A good agent will fight hard for their client and not give up until they get what they want. A bad agent will give excuses and not be interested in helping.

Since the insurance was not bought through the agent, unfortunately, you'll have to contact the insurance company by yourself or through whomever you bought it through.

As Mike said, most travel insurance companies do provide for pre-existing conditions if purchased within certain periods. For example, the one we have a contract with will cover pre-existing conditions provided the insurance is purchased on or before the final payment due date.

Pete
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Old August 1st, 2014, 05:10 PM
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The thing is, it's really not for the passenger to be contacting the cruise line - this is what the agent is suppose to be doing - it's their job. Tell them to do their job! If they don't want to do what they're suppose to do, then ask to speak to their supervisor. And don't settle for 'sorry, we can't help'.

A good agent will fight hard for their client and not give up until they get what they want. A bad agent will give excuses and not be interested in helping.

Since the insurance was not bought through the agent, unfortunately, you'll have to contact the insurance company by yourself or through whomever you bought it through.

As Mike said, most travel insurance companies do provide for pre-existing conditions if purchased within certain periods. For example, the one we have a contract with will cover pre-existing conditions provided the insurance is purchased on or before the final payment due date.

Pete
OK, I don't know the ins and outs of being a TA, but I just can't imagine that anyone cares more about my issue than I do. Will a TA go all the way to the top of the chain of command for you? I doubt it, but correct me if I'm wrong. There comes a time when the cruiser, or the TA, has gone round and round with staff and supervisors, and it becomes apparent that nothing is going to be done, regardless of who is doing the asking.

That is the point at which I would take matters into my own hands and write my own letter to the CEO or at least someone beyond a supervisor in a call center.
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Old August 1st, 2014, 06:38 PM
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I am just hoping that in the long run, your honesty will pay off, just be patient and respectful, like you have been and things will go your way....I sure hope so in your case, keep us posted.
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Old August 1st, 2014, 08:22 PM
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I definitely hear you! And no, not all TA's are created equal. You'll know right away when you ask them for help and see how they respond. But there are some who, like me, are very passionate about what we do and take it personally when one of our clients has a problem. And yes, I have taken matters like this up the flag pole to the top. In fact, the president of one cruise line and I have a very good personal relationship that all started with a problem that I worked until I got to the top. (I can be very persistent when needed.) I will admit that many agents won't get that involved because it does take alot of time and effort, and they don't get paid for all that extra work. But there are many of us who work hard for our clients knowing they'll use our services again because they appreciate the effort.

I'm working on a situation right now where a couple who booked a honeymoon suite at a wonderful upscale all-inclusive resort never informed anyone that they were closing the entire suite building for renovation after the 2nd night of their week-long stay. The wholesaler is livid as they have several couples booked over the next month and they were never informed about this. My clients were moved to another resort that is not as upscale and is not adults-only. They're making the best of it and are still having a wonderful honeymoon in a nice suite, but needless to say, between the wholesaler and us, we will definitely be getting a huge compensation package for them. And I won't quit until I get them what I want and make them happy no matter what it takes.

I definitely hear what you're saying about working it up to the top and I really appreciate your being firm yet diplomatic while dealing with this. That in itself will hopefully help in getting a satisfactory resolution. Just keep being persistent and keeping notes as to who you talked to, when, and what they said.

I'm really disappointed in your insurance carrier. It's problems like this why you purchase it in the first place. If you don't mind posting who they are, it might be invaluable for others as they can stay away from them. If not, I think we'll all understand.

Keep us informed on how it goes and let us know if you have any questions. Perhaps someone on here can provide some more insight.

Pete
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Old August 2nd, 2014, 08:14 AM
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It's a shame that your honesty stopped the refund from HAL. It you'd kept quiet when they thought your daughter had died you would have received the refund. So, I admire your being upfront with HAL and perhaps you could use that angle, by telling them "you know, you were going to issue a refund until I corrected your bad assumption of what had happened. Is my honesty with you not worthy of some consideration?"
Is money worth more than the lack of integrity created by lying? Not correcting a known error (just keeping quiet when you know something is false) is still a lie.
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Old August 2nd, 2014, 08:26 AM
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Is money worth more than the lack of integrity created by lying? Not correcting a known error (just keeping quiet when you know something is false) is still a lie.

I was brought up to believe that integrity and being honest was the only way to live your life and teach your kids that as well.



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Old August 2nd, 2014, 06:00 PM
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I was brought up to believe that integrity and being honest was the only way to live your life and teach your kids that as well.



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I as well but I have seen some posts that lead me to believe not all were brought up that way (or failed to listen to their parent's teachings). To see a true threadwide lack of integrity hard at work, check out a smuggler thread some day.
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Old August 2nd, 2014, 11:33 PM
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Re / just keeping quite and letting them think your daughter had passed and receiving a refund, I doubt it would have worked out that way. Just as you need to supply documentation to receive benefits from a missed cruise due to illness, I'm sure they would have required documentation for a death claim.
So, it would not have been as simple as just keeping quite as some have suggested and receiving a check.
And too, honesty is certainly worth more than a few dollars for a cruise.
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Old August 4th, 2014, 02:35 PM
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At some point the OP would have had to produce a death certificate in order to get proceeds from the insurance policy. Saying nothing could have gotten her prosecuted for insurance fraud.
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Old August 5th, 2014, 10:08 AM
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I have written to the president of HA. To be honest, I expect the letter to be answered by the same people as before, but there is always hope that I will get a new set of eyes. What irks me most is actually the fact that HA keeps mis-characterizing the situation, "your TA told us one thing and then the situation changed" when what actually happened is they responded to my email which they apparently misread. Also, my TA seems to have vanished. Live and learn. We did have an amazing vacation to Yellowstone which was way better than the cruise would have been. Will keep this post going if something changes.

KEvin
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Old August 5th, 2014, 04:39 PM
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Thanks for keeping us informed, Kevin. Sorry you're having to go through all this - it should have been something your agent was taking care of. I'm disappointed they 'disappeared' on you, but I'm not surprised as they're really not agents. As you said, live and learn.

As for contacting the president of HAL, I hope that works well for you. If you don't get what you want, no harm in turning to social media. Look at what happened with that family who were going on an NCL cruise and just before they were to leave, their son was diagnosed with cancer. They did not buy the insurance and were disappointed when NCL wouldn't give them another cruise. They did everything wrong and expected to be given everything. Because they turned to social media, it hit the national news and now everything has changed. In your case, you did everything right! Sometimes social media can be of great help. Worse case, it couldn't hurt!

Pete
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Old August 9th, 2014, 06:28 PM
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Got a real letter from HA. The have offered me the "unprecedented" offer to upgrade me on my next cruise not to include suites. It would be nice if there was some mention of -sorry we screwed up- but given that I was hoping to get half of my money back, and if they will upgrade me from an inside room to a balcony (my hope, not their offer) I am going to accept what I got.

Kevin
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