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  #31 (permalink)  
Old June 30th, 2002, 04:17 PM
marnie
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Default Re: SW airlines Overweight fare

Passengers who are handicapped and have special needs know they are expected to inform the airline of their special needs. It has become a problem when a person requires 2 seats and only buys 1 ticket and doesn't inform the airlines of their special needs. They had to do something. The only time they are going to charge the extra fare is when the plane is full. It's rude to assume that it's perfectly ok for your obesity to cause another passenger to be bumped off the flight. The airline would have to refund the money to that passenger or provide them with another ticket. The airlines had to do something to stop this.

I am sincerely sorry for those who have thyroid problems that cause obesity, it's as bad as any other handicap. There's nothing cheap about being handicapped. Some have to have special equipment installed in their house just to adapt. Buying an extra seat is no different. You have to realize that you're handicapped and you will be treated differently because of your special needs. It's sad to say, but it's true. Thanks to a few rude passengers who bought one ticket knowing full well that they needed two, this policy now has to be enforced.
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  #32 (permalink)  
Old July 1st, 2002, 08:21 AM
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Default Re: Re: SW airlines Overweight fare

Well said Marnie.

If a thyroid problem causes obesity then that person needs are special. Many other handicaps require special services or products and this should be recognized as a handicap also. Does a blind person's seeing eye dog require a ticket? I don't know. Does a caregiver who escorts an elderly or mentally handicapped person along on the trip require a ticket? Well, of course. Because the caregiver is taking up a seat. Even though the handicap requires a caregiver to go along. If a handicapped obese person requires two seats, then it should be paid for.

Regards,
Thomas
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  #33 (permalink)  
Old July 1st, 2002, 10:11 AM
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Default Re: SW airlines Overweight fare

Thomas ...

Being the "aunt" of a Seeing Eye dog, I know they don't require tickets. Blind people are generally seated at a forward bulkhead so the pooch can park on the floor.

I am, however, troubled by what DriversEd said. I don't think there has been anything but empathy for overweight people who have no control over their obesity. For the most part it was a logical, well-reasoned discussion about one airline's policies. As a former flight attendant, I agree with the policies.

As to "Who's First in Line" I think Limey Neil was a great help in explaining policies and procedures. There was a lot of talk without a lot of facts. Neil gave us the facts. And we are better for the knowing.

Every now and then in almost any discussion of anything but the most benign subjects, there will be a smart crack or two. But, for the most part the CM boards are extremely civil and well-moderated.

I encourage everyone to remember that this is the "Cruise Gripes" Forum where opinions are the norm, rather than straight-out advice-giving/asking which is the norm for other forums.

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Old July 1st, 2002, 11:42 AM
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Default Re: Re: SW airlines Overweight fare

Good post Pamda. As usual.

As for Driversed, well when you are gaining so many new members you are going to lose some once in a while. That's just part of business. You can't please everyone. The obesity talk must've struck a nerve in her. If she leaves CM it's her loss.

I know I can't please everyone who walks into my business, but I will still try. I am dedicated to pleasing every customer but I no longer lose sleep over those who leave unhappy IF I've given them my best shot at satisfaction.

CruiseMates is the best. And you're the angel on top of the tree!

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Old July 14th, 2002, 06:43 PM
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Default Re: Re: SW airlines Overweight fare

Jim: I agree with you 100%. We have something called the Americans With Disabilities Act -- a Federal law, and there is certainly an issue here inder this Act. Obesity is a medically recognized disability that has been getting a lot of "press coverage" lately. If this law applies to this situation, SW Airlines would be ordered to accomodate this disability, not charge for it.

Clearly, coach seats are too narrow. And SW Airlines has the least legroom in the industry. Further, all their planes are 737's, which are the most cramped and crowded plane in the skies! (The flying sardine can!) Normally, I don't like government regulation of business. But in the case of the airlines, it's clear that deregulation was a very bad idea. Under the pre-deregulation system, there would be a real "adequacy of service" question over coach seating, which has shrunk since deregulation. Now, all we have is the free market remedy of selecting another airline --- which isn't such a bad idea. Even for those of us who are not particularly obese -- or tall or just plain big -- those SW coach seats are downright painful anyway.
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  #36 (permalink)  
Old July 15th, 2002, 12:42 PM
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Default Re: SW airlines Overweight fare

How can SW airlines accomodate someone's disability if they don't know they have one? Do most obese people realize they are disabled? Obviously not or they would have notified the airlines of their handicap and passengers wouldn't have been bumped from their flight. Airlines have to accomodate a large population of passengers, not just the disabled. If I need a wheelchair, I wouldn't blame the airline for not having one ready for me when I didn't tell them.

The extra coach fare is still far less than one first class ticket. People were fine with the fact that buying more space cost more money. Now you know not to bother buying a 1st class ticket if I want to spread out, all I have to do is buy 2 coach. And there's no dress code requirements and you still save $500 by giving up the steak and cocktails. I can't believe it hasn't caught on.
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Old July 15th, 2002, 05:17 PM
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Default Re: SW airlines Overweight fare

Marnie!
What a great idea - why didn't I think of that?? :o)
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  #38 (permalink)  
Old July 16th, 2002, 09:31 AM
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Default Re: Re: SW airlines Overweight fare

I flew from east coast to west and sat next to a passenger who weighed 550 lbs. He was very apologetic and he was the one that told me how much he weighed. It was NOT a pleasant experience as I sat in the middle seat. The flight went out totally full so changing seats was not an option. If anyone has ever experienced this you would definitely feel as I do that an obese person should buy TWO seats.
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  #39 (permalink)  
Old July 19th, 2002, 11:44 AM
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Default Re: Re: SW airlines Overweight fare

Pamda, as you are a former flight attendant, I'd like your take on some related issues. It seems that SW is planning on a surcharge for the obese so they can fit them in their coach section (it' only one they've got) which is the most cramped in the skys. But what about non-obese people who cant fit in those ity-bity seats. Like the skinny guy who is just very tall? Those guys I saw on a plane the other day who looked like NFL linebackers, who had 0% body fat but were just huge? The woman who is just "a little bit pregnant"? The person with arthritic legs who can't contort them to fit, in light of SW's lack of legroom"?

Then, of more importance,what about safety issues? As hard as it is to get up and out of those seats, and as narrow as the aisles are, what would happen in an emergency evacuation, and at what cost? Then since the tragedy of 9-11, passengers have been encouraged to fight anyone who tries to take over the plane. From my brief hand to hand combat training in the Air Force (Rick could comment better as he was/is a Marine), I don't think there is adequate room to fight is a SW cabin!

So, I suggest the problem is that the cabins are just too tight tor far too many people and/or activities. Not just the obese. What do you think?
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  #40 (permalink)  
Old July 20th, 2002, 12:42 PM
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Default Re: SW airlines Overweight fare

Dear Babe ...

I just saw some industry (airline) stats yesterday. Seems like SouthWest is making a profit when some of the larger carriers aren't.

I think it was on the Reuters wire.

Must be those itty-bitty seats and low fares.

I could go into humor mode here, but you present a very serious question about safety.

I'll do my best to answer.

The first thing I do when I get on an aircraft is check the emergency exits. Then I scrutinize the people sitting next to the windows (flight attendants handle the doors).

I tell you, with all seriousness, that my plans are made to crawl over rows of people, if necessary, to get over-wing exit windows open, well before the "official" safety announcement is given, which nobody seems to pay attention to, anyway. I feel reasonably confident that all former airline crew thinks the same way as I. And it's not to get ourselves out first. It's to help. That old training STICKS.

We once flew with a retired pilot, who sat next to me. We figured out each other's former occupations FAST because of the eyes skating around looking for the exits.

If I commit the sin of political incorrectness by putting morbidly obese people in the category of "physically challenged", I apologize in advance. It's quite possible that an extremely heavy person might not be able to get THROUGH an emergency exit window. Paying tor two seats wouldn't help at all in an emergency situation.

There are also the wheelchair people (who are without their wheelchairs when in flight), blind people ( I have a dear friend who is blind and flies with her Seeing Eye dog), the pregnant ladies you mentioned, even a young mom flying with a child or two or three falls into what I would define as a "high risk" category for evacuation.

Of course, the airlines aren't going to scare passengers by doing much more than the lame FAA-mandated safety announcement.

It may be of interest to know that cruise ships have well-honed plans in place to evacuate such folks. And they know WHO the people are and their cabin numbers.

Back to your first question, if people are very tall, arthritic, or whatever else, they just should not fly on airlines or in a class of seat where they will be uncomfortable. That's choiceful.

Dumbest thing I ever saw? A few years back, a guy on a 13-hour flight who'd just had a double knee replacement about three weeks before. Think of airpressure at altitude. His surgical wounds popped. He wanted to sue the airline because it ruined his cruise. I don't think he should have been going on a cruise in the first place.

I hope I've answered your questions and concerns. If I can add more, just ask.

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  #41 (permalink)  
Old October 14th, 2002, 12:33 AM
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Default Re: SW airlines Overweight fare

Hi everyone:

Just looking back at past posts, and thought I would comment on this one. Did anyone ever think of the times we go to a concert, and can't see a thing because someone tall is sitting in front of us, or the time on a plane that a baby is next to us screaming the whole way, or the time the person next to us has the flu and is coughing the whole flight to Hawaii( this happened to me) and then you have the flu for the whole cruise; or the person who sits next to you at a concert or at church where you can't get up and move and, they are doused in perfume and you get migraine headaches from perfume? How about the people who smoke next to you even when it's in non=smoking and you get bronchitis and wheezing from cigarettes?

How do we charge all these annoying people for disturbing us? Have a heart people. Let's love one another.

God Bless!
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  #42 (permalink)  
Old March 12th, 2012, 12:58 AM
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Here's my two cents - I am "FAT" and have been for my entire life...There is only one thing worse than flying, and that is flying uncomfortably......My opinion is simple..As much as you smaller people hate to be sitting next to us "FAT" people, I can assure we're just as miserable. I personally don't care if your small, fat, tall or skinny, I donít want to be rubbing shoulders with anyone..So with that being said, I have always purchased two seats...It's either that are I find myself driving!

And NO, I'm not a wealthy person, but I refuse to be miserable no matter who is sitting next to me....
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  #43 (permalink)  
Old March 15th, 2012, 05:42 PM
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I get the core of the discussion, and to be honest I could fit on either side of the fence on the argument. However at least twice a month I fly, I fly on ordinary airlines, with ordinary seats (their description).

And I have to be honest, on those normal flights I am either at the window, on the aisle or stuck in the middle of a bank of three seats.

Now, I am not a bloater by any means, I'm around 160 lbs and on looking at the other two on the row, so are they.

So why is it we canít eat our meals without digging our elbows into those around us despite nearly eating like a person who's total arm mobility works only from the wrist?

Why canít my shoulders if stuck in the middle seat feel that they are not infringing on those around me,,,where is my space?

Forget reading a newspaper, as not only am I now crossing the territorial boundary of those besides me, but the seat in front is so close that I'm nearly hanging the paper over the person in front as well to read!!

So, where does the problem really sit, it sits with airlines that thinks everyone coming on board is a super model or an anorexic, and they can squeeze themselves into the space that they make available these days.
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Old March 16th, 2012, 10:23 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DavidB View Post
I get the core of the discussion, and to be honest I could fit on either side of the fence on the argument. However at least twice a month I fly, I fly on ordinary airlines, with ordinary seats (their description).

And I have to be honest, on those normal flights I am either at the window, on the aisle or stuck in the middle of a bank of three seats.

Now, I am not a bloater by any means, I'm around 160 lbs and on looking at the other two on the row, so are they.

So why is it we canít eat our meals without digging our elbows into those around us despite nearly eating like a person who's total arm mobility works only from the wrist?

Why canít my shoulders if stuck in the middle seat feel that they are not infringing on those around me,,,where is my space?

Forget reading a newspaper, as not only am I now crossing the territorial boundary of those besides me, but the seat in front is so close that I'm nearly hanging the paper over the person in front as well to read!!

So, where does the problem really sit, it sits with airlines that thinks everyone coming on board is a super model or an anorexic, and they can squeeze themselves into the space that they make available these days.

Could not have said it better!
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  #45 (permalink)  
Old March 17th, 2012, 08:31 PM
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The airlines are in the business of air cargo. They move weight quickly from A to B. It doesn't matter if that cargo is alive or not, it still costs so many dollars per pound per mile for fuel to take that cargo aloft and fly it quickly to it's destination.

When I take a heavy package to the post office, they have the nerve to charge me more than they charge for a small package.

It's not my fault that my package is heavier than the others. Why should I have to pay more?
It is not the fault of the post office that it takes more fuel to fly my package overseas than it takes to fly a lighter package. Why should they have to lose money by charging me the same for a heavy package as they would for a lighter one? Should they raise the postal rates for everyone in order to cover the extra cost of sending my heavier package?

Up to this point, the airlines have taken a Socialist view on airfares. The lighter passengers have been paying a bit extra to cover the additional fuel cost of flying heavier passengers.
Why would it be unfair to charge by the pound?

If the ADA doesn't like it, let them pay the difference.
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Old March 18th, 2012, 10:59 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Driversed28 View Post
One of these days one of you may end up with a condition that leaves you unsightly in some way...then maybe you will realize how you sound now.
I am very sorry that you have that condition and I can only imagine how hard it is for you to read these posts. KUDOS to you for living life to the fullest.

The truth is that there may be a multitude of reasons a person is overweight, including physical, psychological, or psychological issues.

The problem is that many overweight people are that way simply because they eat too much. Why would anyone want to take a financial hit (airlines) or be incredibly uncomfortable for hours (passengers) just to support someones unhealthy bad habit? Not me!

We face these issues many times in our society. Look at Welfare. I have NO problem having a social safety net, it is actually good for society. I DO have a problem with giving money or food to those who could work for themselves.

So - how do we differentiate between the folks that are obese because they overeat and those that have medical problems? Why not a card or notice from a doctor that would be honored by the airlines?
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  #47 (permalink)  
Old March 21st, 2012, 09:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DavidB View Post
I get the core of the discussion, and to be honest I could fit on either side of the fence on the argument. However at least twice a month I fly, I fly on ordinary airlines, with ordinary seats (their description).

And I have to be honest, on those normal flights I am either at the window, on the aisle or stuck in the middle of a bank of three seats.

Now, I am not a bloater by any means, I'm around 160 lbs and on looking at the other two on the row, so are they.

So why is it we canít eat our meals without digging our elbows into those around us despite nearly eating like a person who's total arm mobility works only from the wrist?

Why canít my shoulders if stuck in the middle seat feel that they are not infringing on those around me,,,where is my space?

Forget reading a newspaper, as not only am I now crossing the territorial boundary of those besides me, but the seat in front is so close that I'm nearly hanging the paper over the person in front as well to read!!

So, where does the problem really sit, it sits with airlines that thinks everyone coming on board is a super model or an anorexic, and they can squeeze themselves into the space that they make available these days.
Excellent post!...... I feel the same way.

TM
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Old March 21st, 2012, 11:55 PM
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The original post is approx. 10 yeas old. It seems to be popular today to awaken these '' sleepers".
In the 10 years or so, I'm sure the airlines have made Alvera changes in their flight handling procedures, etc.
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Old March 22nd, 2012, 06:39 AM
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I am not suggesting I could not lose a few pounds also, but obesity is unfair to oneself and everyone around them. Who gave these people the right to take up so much room and eat so much food? It seems terribly greedy to me.
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Old March 22nd, 2012, 12:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rick View Post
Jodi......perhaps I should have been clearer. Not asking would you be comfortable beside an obese person......Question...is it fair for a person requiring 2 seats to pay double fare?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim Bragg View Post
Rick, there will be a lawsuit filed against this the day it goes into effect, if not sooner. It is also reported that the ticketing agent will be the person determining if the customer is required to pay for two seats. This is so vague that it will never stand. In addition what about people who just happen to have wide shoulders like myself? What about ladies with large bosums? Will it only affect overwieght people? What about a person who is exceptionally tall? As you can see, there is no way this can be effectively done with any sense of fairness which means it will be illegal. What the airlines should do is make those darn seats wider! I have been pretty comfortable on most airplanes but those darn 727's with the 3/3 configuration is very painful for me because of the width of my shoulders, they just do not fit between the edges of the seats, and that's bone, not fat.
Jim
Quote:
Originally Posted by babe ruth View Post
Jim: I agree with you 100%. We have something called the Americans With Disabilities Act -- a Federal law, and there is certainly an issue here inder this Act. Obesity is a medically recognized disability that has been getting a lot of "press coverage" lately. If this law applies to this situation, SW Airlines would be ordered to accomodate this disability, not charge for it.

Clearly, coach seats are too narrow. And SW Airlines has the least legroom in the industry. Further, all their planes are 737's, which are the most cramped and crowded plane in the skies! (The flying sardine can!) Normally, I don't like government regulation of business. But in the case of the airlines, it's clear that deregulation was a very bad idea. Under the pre-deregulation system, there would be a real "adequacy of service" question over coach seating, which has shrunk since deregulation. Now, all we have is the free market remedy of selecting another airline --- which isn't such a bad idea. Even for those of us who are not particularly obese -- or tall or just plain big -- those SW coach seats are downright painful anyway.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shari 2 View Post
Hi everyone:

Just looking back at past posts, and thought I would comment on this one. Did anyone ever think of the times we go to a concert, and can't see a thing because someone tall is sitting in front of us, or the time on a plane that a baby is next to us screaming the whole way, or the time the person next to us has the flu and is coughing the whole flight to Hawaii( this happened to me) and then you have the flu for the whole cruise; or the person who sits next to you at a concert or at church where you can't get up and move and, they are doused in perfume and you get migraine headaches from perfume? How about the people who smoke next to you even when it's in non=smoking and you get bronchitis and wheezing from cigarettes?

How do we charge all these annoying people for disturbing us? Have a heart people. Let's love one another.

God Bless!



hmmm, i was going to reply, but after Ron points out that the OP is ten years old, I won't bother.
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Old March 24th, 2012, 04:23 PM
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Originally Posted by Bruce Chafkin1 View Post
The airlines are in the business of air cargo. They move weight quickly from A to B. It doesn't matter if that cargo is alive or not, it still costs so many dollars per pound per mile for fuel to take that cargo aloft and fly it quickly to it's destination.

When I take a heavy package to the post office, they have the nerve to charge me more than they charge for a small package.

It's not my fault that my package is heavier than the others. Why should I have to pay more?
It is not the fault of the post office that it takes more fuel to fly my package overseas than it takes to fly a lighter package. Why should they have to lose money by charging me the same for a heavy package as they would for a lighter one? Should they raise the postal rates for everyone in order to cover the extra cost of sending my heavier package?

Up to this point, the airlines have taken a Socialist view on airfares. The lighter passengers have been paying a bit extra to cover the additional fuel cost of flying heavier passengers.
Why would it be unfair to charge by the pound?

If the ADA doesn't like it, let them pay the difference.
The fact that this thread is now actually ten years old says a lot, it's not a new problem and if anything its become bigger now (pardon the pun) during that time. So its very much still relevant today, and sorry Bruce I am not a parcel posting myself to my destination, when I book a flight on line or via a TA, non-one asks what weight I am or how many seats I might need? THEY CANT, ITS DISCRIMINATION. Same rule that says you cant ask what color people are, or what their religous beliefs are, or would you be happy sitting next to a dwarf, or someone with no or minimal social grace or skills that does not understand the look of "leave me alone please and stop talking" (wish they had that on the booking form)

See picking on the chubbys is dead easy, there are slimmer folks around that I pray I never have to sit beside again on a flight, train, ship, but thankfully so far not in a Fedex delivery
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Old March 24th, 2012, 06:59 PM
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May-be something the airlines could consider......have a row or two with seats that instead of 3, have 2 wider ones and charge for them accordingly. I am sure some flyers would certain pay more for those along with another person and it would be more like one and a half, instead of two seats?? Just a thought...
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Old March 26th, 2012, 05:33 PM
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The thing is that if the airlines can charge more for heavier luggage, they should be able to charge more for heavier people. Aren't people really luggage?:-D:-D:-D David, if you weigh 160 pounds, it would be a pleasure sitting next to you, and we could share each others food, except for the fact that the airlines I fly only give me peanuts.
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Old March 26th, 2012, 06:01 PM
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They should appreciate people come in different sizes I suppose.
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Old March 28th, 2012, 03:27 PM
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Yes they should take that into account. As the people of the world get taller, heavier, broader and society gets bigger and heavier only the airline industry could decide that the seats people sit in and the space between each paying person will actually get smaller!!!! Whats that about?
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Old May 27th, 2012, 07:11 PM
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Default more gripes about airlines...

First of all, I think that it would be great if airfare was by the pound... For the individual and the luggage and the carry on.

gripe #1- I recently had an aisle seat at the rear of the plane. About an hour into the flight, I wanted to stand up and scream "Could you all please try to NOT rub you A$$ across my body on your way to / from the lavatory?!?"

Now, I am a very easy going guy but when there is a line for the restroom and the aisle is narrow and the people leaving the restroom have to squeeze by everyone in that line, it gets sort of gross and uncomfortable to say the least.

To remedy this, I will generally grab the first middle seat (if not assigned) where I can sit next to 2 average sized people. Yes, I might get an aisle or window seat further back in the plane but getting a window seat is just not that important to me.

Gripe #2- When the airline charges for a 2nd piece of checked luggage but then upon boarding, they offer to check the larger carry ons for free because there is no space in the overhead compartments because everyone finds a way to have the maximum size carryon because of the fee for the piece of second checked luggage. How is that for a run on sentence? So it is like a circular reference and they end up checking it for free anyways after I had gone ahead and lugged the thing through security. Once again, simply charging by the pound for everything simplifies the issue then you can check it or not and it would not matter.

In any event, after is all said and done, I can smile and think about how I am headed for a cruise ship and the folks around me probably are not.

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Old May 28th, 2012, 06:34 AM
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The truth is, if your fat is going to spill over into my seat, then I am VERY unhappy and angry. So, you must buy 2 seats since you are using the second seat for part of your body. PERIOD.
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  #58 (permalink)  
Old May 30th, 2012, 03:35 PM
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I fly southwest all the time I think if they need 2 seats they pay 2 seats some people have health issue's. Otherwise leave them alone if they fit in the seat and can buckle up no one is perfect.
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Old May 30th, 2012, 03:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by milo2410 View Post
I fly southwest all the time I think if they need 2 seats they pay 2 seats some people have health issue's. Otherwise leave them alone if they fit in the seat and can buckle up no one is perfect.
Just because someone can buckle up doesnt mean they are not overflowing into my seat...I would leave them alone but you can bet your bottom dollar I would not be the one sitting next to him or her.
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  #60 (permalink)  
Old June 7th, 2012, 05:20 PM
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The airlines should give passengers more room and more comfort.
Of course that means that the CEO's would have to make a few million dollars less every year.
You know that is not going to happen.

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